The Gutter Club » leaf

Purchasing Leaf Filter is like buying a Time Share

Team — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 17:32:00 +0000

Just one time, my wife and I attended one of those Time Share presentations in exchange for a free mini-cruise and hotel stay. That day was one I will never forget. The pressure to buy was immense, but we both kept saying NO. Throughout the day they passed us on from person to person. Each new person we met would lower the price by thousands of dollars!

At the beginning of the day the original price was somewhere around $25,000 and people were buying at that price. By the time we met with the last person after saying NO all day long, the price had dropped to around $6,000. I felt incredibly bad for those poor chumps who bought at the $25,000 level for the EXACT SAME PRODUCT.

Well, a reader submitted the following story about Leaf Filter that evokes that same feeling as my Time Share experience:

I had the Leaf Filter “Field Manager” over to give the demo, etc. I have 134 feet of gutters all straight, no turns. I was amused while watching him labor over 5 minutes with pencil and calculator arriving at a price. He came up with $4,225.00! The flyer had a coupon for $250, and he immediately threw in another $250 “senior discount.” It still seemed very high to me ($3,725), so I said that I couldn’t do it. He then came up with another tactic – mine was a small job, he could fit it on when the crew was down, but I had to be on alert for a “last minute call” to install. Now the price was $2,750!

He immediately got on the phone and called a crew manager, and arranged for an actual date – after having said that they would call me when time freed up(!). I signed a contract, which allowed for cancellation within three days.

Finally, I read these posts on the internet, called the 800 number. They told me that they could do nothing and that the Regional manager would have to call me. In the meantime I sent the contract back with CANCEL written over it (certified mail), as the field manager originally had said I could do.

The Regional manager finally called 5 days later. He expressed disappointment in my cancellation and then offered to do the job for $1,300! This must be indicative of how they lead customers into getting the highest inflationary price from them at first. Who really knows what a real price is?

What kind of company that claims they’re number one uses tactics lower than that of used car salesmen? This turned me off more than the false product claims.

This is simply amazing.

Leaf Filter Homeowner Reports and Reviews

Team — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:17:04 +0000

Here are a couple of recent Home Owner reports about their experiences with Leaf Filter and their local installers. First up is Keith who is not having a good time with his recent Leaf Filter installation:

Courtesy of Leaf Filter

Keith writes:

(5/27/2011) – I had Leaf Filter installed a little less than a year ago (for what I consider a hefty price) after the sales person sold me on it. While they were installing it I saw them cutting pieces of ordinary insect screen in addition to the micro-screen that keeps the small grit out. He explained they put it at only the corners to deal with heavy water flow. OK, fair enough though a little slippery of the sales guy who took over an hour of my time demonstrating the stuff not to mention this limitation. Upon departing the installer remarks “don’t worry if it runs over – it takes awhile for the oil from the manufacturer to wear off the micro-screen”. Hmmm… sure enough at the corners where the water flows heaviest it shoots out like waterfalls – a year later! I have 6-inch gutters. This product is simply flawed and misrepresented by sales staff. Don’t believe what they say.

More recently, Keith continues his story:

(6/9/2011) – First, I left a post a in [May] 2011 explaining my bad experience with my Leaf Filter install – deceptive sales pitch, untruths spoken by the installer, still pours over the gutters one year later as if the gutters are not even there. [Strange that] I got a call from a somewhat perturbed dealer telling me to chill out and they would contact me soon. Two weeks later I have not heard a word and am sitting on my front porch during a shower enjoying the waterfalls eroding my landscaping. Thank you Leaf Filter for wasting $2200 of my money.

As is typical, we get a lot of poor reviews of gutter protection products. Angry people tend to write more than satisfied people. I’m sure that we can all understand that. It would be nice, however to get some detailed positive reviews of the various gutter protection products out there. Anybody?

More Praise for DIY Home Depot Gutter Guards

Team — Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:24:36 +0000

We have previously reported our excellent experience with the DIY style of gutter guards sold by Home Depot and other home improvement stores. They are an attractive option for those home owners (us!) who balk at arbitrarily enormous price tags for professional gutter guard systems.

Cheap and Effective from Amerimax

We’ve had our DIY gutter guards in place for 3 years now with absolutely perfect results. Reader “Davey” writes in with some additional comments.

Hey everybody, I put my Home Depot screens in 18 months ago, and they are holding up well AND we have extra tall oak trees out the wazoo all around the house, when the acorns pop in the fall it’s a squirrel disneyland. Bottom line is I did find one crack after a year, right where someone clearly punched a hammer head shaped hole (could it have been the roofing inspector ‘insulted’ by a DIY job or a hammer wielding squirrel – you decide).

I kept a couple extra vinyl sections, easy to cut out a small section and replace the damaged part I cut out. Just leave about 1/2 inch overlap on each side. The gutter install business is expensive because people who climb heights and walk on roofs deserve the extra hazardous duty pay. But if you can easily DIY, it’s pretty silly to hire some one.

The vinyl used nowadays is much better weather resistent then ten years ago, and easy to swap out any damaged pieces. Listen to those who contest my argument as they use emotive language or other laungusge intensifyers to reflect the fact they know their argument is not well founded in ‘ground truth’.

Review of Leaf Filter and Leaf Guard

Team — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 18:03:33 +0000

We here at The Gutter Club understand that those with complaints will make the most noise. We know that most of the reviews featured on this site are negative… but that seems to be the only kind we ever really receive. We would love to hear from consumers with positive experiences. We know they exist as we have featured one or two on the site before. So let’s hear them!

That being said, the following review is a bit of both worlds! Reader Laron O. submits an unfortunate review of Leaf Filter while praising Leaf Guard for rectifying the situation. Interesting. They write:

We had Leaf Filter installed on our Monroe, WA home and were completely disappointed as well – both with the product and with the many promised fixes. After many promises, attempts to shift the blame to the installer (who ironically was responsive because he was not being paid and tried his best to effect what “fixes” he could), we finally became perturbed enough to contact our credit card company who reversed the payment. That got the owner’s attention. He promised if we sent a “good faith” payment of $3,000 in the form of a check, he would make us so happy we would be a “poster child” for the product. We immediately sent the check – he was a compelling “talker”. Nothing!

I took a number of videos and photos of water pouring over our gutters, and still nothing. I probably should have involved the Better Business Bureau but by this time, I was just tired of the whole thing. I went up and tore off all the screens and we lived with that for the next two winters – the gutters were installed correctly and handled the water well. We called Leaf Guard the following summer and they came right out, tore off the old gutters, hauled them away and we are now “poster children” for them – totally satisfied. DO NOT BELIEVE THE CLAIMS OF LEAF FILTER. We have plenty of ugly video and images of the green “slime” mold and masses of leaves and needles that never blew off if any one would like to see reality rather than nice little studio produced commercials.

Leaf Filter Review from a Reader

Team — Sun, 09 May 2010 12:55:28 +0000

Reader James writes the following review of the Leaf Filter gutter protection system:

I have had Leaf Filter on my home since March of ‘09 and live on a heavily wooded lot in Falls Church Va. I have lots of pines and oaks all around my property. I used to have to go up on my roof at least 3 times a year to clean out the gutters. Since getting Leaf Filter put on my house I couldn’t be happier. All the water goes right through the screen every time, and the leaves come right off. Also, just a note, when my neighbors gutters came off during the winter, mine stayed on.

Check out all the complaints for Leaf Guard!

Team — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:43:37 +0000

Wow, I stumbled across a site called PissedConsumer.com today and was quite amazed at all of the complaints against Leaf Guard.

Check it out for yourself!

Sample of some Leaf Guard complaints from PissedConsumer.com

Review of GutterMaxx Leaf Protection System

Team — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:05:15 +0000

Joe chimes in with another Reader Report, this time we get a little expert advice and then an endorsement of the GutterMaxx Leaf Protection System. Here is Joe’s lengthy report:

The main problem I have found for using ANY cover with your standard open tray gutter is that this type of gutter installation has major flaws.

First of all, it is never installed with a drip edge on your fascia board (thats even if you have a fascia board at all, if not, your troubles are compounded… will touch on later) A drip edge is designed to keep water off of your roof line wood surfaces (fascia board, rafter tails, roof decking) otherwise they will begin to rot, eventually causing you to spend thousands of dollars on a roof line repair. The reason a drip edge is never used with a standard open tray gutter is that the spike or screw has to penetrate it in order to mount the gutter to the home, thus rendering it useless.

Roof Line Gutter Damage

(Image above courtesy of Gutters911.com)

Often, we see a gutter mounted directly to the rafter tails with no fascia at all! With this type of scenario, the only surface to attach the gutter to is the end of the rafter tails. In summary, the standard open tray gutter installed on 99.9% of all homes is the cheapest system a builder can put up on a home to get it sold.

Drive around any neighborhood and soon you will see this type of gutter pitching, leaning, falling off etc. So explain this to me. If an open tray is eventually going to cause damage to my home and quite possibly fall off, what good is putting a cover on it? Now you get it!

From what I have seen with many no clog gutter systems out there, is that ONLY GutterMaxx stands tall. It is installed with fascia, with a drip edge, the gutter tucks up under the drip edge and the nickel plated screws that mount the system to the home are below the drip edge as not to penetrate it. The hoods have two ways for the water to enter the system, which causes a flushing effect keeping debris in the stream. And since the internal brackets are elevated, once it enters the stream it is a clear shot out to the downspout.

GutterMaxx in Action

This system is also the only system designed under the premise that stuff will get in! That’s why it works so well… it was designed to handle debris and not try to keep it all out! Listen to LeafGuards ads and you will hear something like this, “Keeps ALL debris out that can clog your gutters”. Really, ALL? In other words our system can stop nature, think again.

If you look into the history of no-clog systems you soon discover that LeafGuard was the first attempt at extruding a gutter on-site with a hood on it. It was designed and patented by K-guard approximately 16 years ago. They franchised it and low and behold LeafGuard was born. K-guard gave the franchise owners a 2-year no-clog warranty. Later, the franchises extended that to lifetime to build a book of business.

After putting the system up for about 5 years they discovered that the system had some major flaws.

It was too small, it actually will fit inside a standard 41/2″ open tray gutter. So installing it with a thick roofing material became difficult.

The design would not allow the use of a drip edge, and we have already seen what that causes. When this was discovered they started to put caulking on the back of the gutter when they installed it. (A short term solution at best)

It clogged! what a no clog system that clogs, heaven forbid, remember the nature issue! When they went out to unclog it because of the Lifetime warranty the discovered another problem.

It was very difficult to access because of the one piece design. Once installed it was like a soda can! And finally,

Damage issues, if the hood was damaged the owner was forced to buy a whole new run of gutter! Yep, a one inch dent could cause the owner to purchase a new 40′, 50′ 60′ etc piece.

Imagine getting a ding on your car door, you take it in to get fixed and the repair place gives you a quote that makes you pass out. Then you learn that to fix the door ding you have to purchase a new hood, the other doors, all the quarter panels, the trunk, everything because its all connected. One piece is great on paper and in theory but in reality – not smart.

So after discovering and dealing with all these design set backs, they went back to K-guard and asked them to design a system to replace the first attempt. They did! the GutterMaxx system was born. Now, it was not called that when it was presented to the LeafGuard franchise owners obviously because it was going to be their new product. K-guard looked at the problems and solved them all because, like I stated earlier, they figured out that you cannot stop nature but you can control it to an extent.

K-Guard in Action - so this is identical to GutterMaxx?

No, the system is not perfect, but what it does along with its crown molding type majestic appearance backed up with Lifetime warranties from K-guard, it is without doubt the best system available to date. Oh! why isn’t it Leafguard? Well, when they found out that they would have to re-tool at a cost of $65,000 per truck per franchise owner plus re-do all their advertising from a one-piece system to a two-piece system, they turned it down. K-guard decided to market it themselves through dealers across the country. Smart choice.

When it comes to price, well guess what, with gutters and so called leaf-free hoods etc, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!

Wow! There’s some interesting history there. We can now begin to see how these product are all connected.

We’ve got downspouts that are permanently connected to underground pipes, so if GutterMaxx really is designed to allow some debris into the system, it may not work for us. We need a system that will not allow leaves or large fragments into the downspouts.