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Sample of some Leaf Guard complaints from PissedConsumer.com

Here’s the skinny kiddo’s.  The reverse curve system DOES NOT WORK!  I’ve been a gutter installer for six years now, the last three have been working with leaf protection systems, in particular, K-Guard and Leaf Slugger.

Since [...]]]> Professional gutter installer Rusty Shackleford offers some comments and advice for gutter guards in general.  Some interesting thoughts here:

Here’s the skinny kiddo’s.  The reverse curve system DOES NOT WORK!  I’ve been a gutter installer for six years now, the last three have been working with leaf protection systems, in particular, K-Guard and Leaf Slugger.

Since November of 2006 I have subcontracted all of the warranty/service work for a couple of the big leaf protection devils… er, dealers…yeah, dealers.  In less than a year, I have been to over 600 houses to service protected gutter systems… mostly K-Guard but also topper systems that install on existing ogee style gutters.  They all clog!

Yes Joe, K-Guard does let in debris, but it does not flush them out!  Have you ever taken the time to watch a gutter drain?  There is nowhere near enough velocity in the water to flush the gutter.  There is not enough room on a facia board to pitch a gutter enough to push debris out, most of it settles on the bottom of the gutter around the downspout outlet, starting the clogging process.

Most of the companies that sell these products are a bunch of crooks!  They are companies owned and operated by SALESMAN, NOT TRADESMEN!  They sell their systems for upwards of $40+ a foot!  They justify it with a bogus lifetime warranty. All they are doing is selling a lifetime cleanout contract.  Yeah, they will clean your gutters… when they feel like it!

Oh Yeah, reverse curve systems overshoot in a moderate heavy rain and do not work well on metal roofs or steep roofs.  I have tested several systems out there and there is only one style that works… stainless steel micro-mesh systems.  There are only four companies that I know of that produce these systems… they are Leaf Solution, Leaf Filter, Gutter Glove and Mastershield.

Leaf Solution, in my opinion has the smartest design.  The one thing that these companies have in common is that they will all refund your money if your gutters ever clog.  If these systems are installed properly, they will not clog.  You can pile leaves and debris on top of them and they still take in all of the water.  Take it from me, I have seen it all and tested it all, my mind really is in the gutter… week in and week out.

We had Gutter Guardian installed on our gutters in 2004 and have had no good result.  The perimeter of the house below the gutters has a groove in the ground from rain merely rolling off the gutter guards and gouging out a trench [...]]]> Reader Ted submits a short field report of his experience with Gutter Guardian:

We had Gutter Guardian installed on our gutters in 2004 and have had no good result.  The perimeter of the house below the gutters has a groove in the ground from rain merely rolling off the gutter guards and gouging out a trench in the ground.

Have called the company many times in a vain effort to repair or correct the problem.  Almost want to take the guards out of the gutters and go back to just removing the leaves each Fall.  This product is very unsatisfactory.  Any comments on what I could do here would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Here is what Gutter Guardian looks like:

(from www.gutterguardian.com)

Fall 2009 [...]]]> I’ve had professional gutter leaf protection system installers tell me I’m crazy for eschewing their $3000 offerings and going for the $50 Do-It-Yourself options from Home Depot.  Don’t fall for their crap!  I’ve had the Home Depot options installed on my gutters for 1.5 years and here are the photographic results so far.

Fall 2009 - all leaves have fallen, this is what the filters look like

Photo #1 (above) – This is a section of gutter that have been protected by the Home Depot do-it-yourself option for 1.5 years.  After the three big overlying Oak trees have shed their thousands of leaves, this is the result.  The wind really does keep the filters clean!  At this time of year, without filters, the gutters would have been absolutely stuffed with leaves and debris.

Note that we’ve already raked the back yard over there.  If we hadn’t, it would be a solid carpet of leaves.

Some of the culprits that conspire to fill my gutters!

Photo #2 (above) – Looking up, we see two of the three very large Oak trees that bury us with leaves each Fall.  Notice that all the leaves are gone.

Peering into the gutter from Photo #1

Photo #3 (above) – Here we can see inside the gutter protected by about $20 worth of materials.  No leaves or any organic debris.  There is only a very fine layer of grit from the roof shingles.  Nothing at all to worry about.

Another section of DIY protected gutters - untouched

Photo #4 (above) – This is another section of our gutters being protected by another $20 worth of materials.  This was the first section to be installed, and I didn’t do such a great job.  You can see how much of a scoop there is to the material after the first section.  Big deal though!  Even though I didn’t do a great job, this is how the filter looks 1.5 years after installation and at the end of Fall!  Surprisingly, there are no piles of leaves stuck to the filters.  Only a few small sticks and seed pods.

Inside we find only a fine layer of grit.

Photo #5 (above) – Inside, the gutter is virtually pristine!  Only a fine layer of shingle grit.

Do you need to spend $3000-$4000 to have gutters that look like this?  No.  Don’t fall for the professional leaf protection installer’s sales pitch.

The main problem I have found for using ANY cover with your standard open tray gutter is that this type of gutter installation has major flaws.

First [...]]]> Joe chimes in with another Reader Report, this time we get a little expert advice and then an endorsement of the GutterMaxx Leaf Protection System.  Here is Joe’s lengthy report:

The main problem I have found for using ANY cover with your standard open tray gutter is that this type of gutter installation has major flaws.

First of all, it is never installed with a drip edge on your fascia board (thats even if you have a fascia board at all, if not, your troubles are compounded… will touch on later) A drip edge is designed to keep water off of your roof line wood surfaces (fascia board, rafter tails, roof decking) otherwise they will begin to rot, eventually causing you to spend thousands of dollars on a roof line repair.  The reason a drip edge is never used with a standard open tray gutter is that the spike or screw has to penetrate it in order to mount the gutter to the home, thus rendering it useless.

Roof Line Gutter Damage

(Image above courtesy of Gutters911.com)

Often, we see a gutter mounted directly to the rafter tails with no fascia at all!  With this type of scenario, the only surface to attach the gutter to is the end of the rafter tails.  In summary, the standard open tray gutter installed on 99.9% of all homes is the cheapest system a builder can put up on a home to get it sold.

Drive around any neighborhood and soon you will see this type of gutter pitching, leaning, falling off etc.  So explain this to me.  If an open tray is eventually going to cause damage to my home and quite possibly fall off, what good is putting a cover on it?  Now you get it!

From what I have seen with many no clog gutter systems out there, is that ONLY GutterMaxx stands tall.  It is installed with fascia, with a drip edge, the gutter tucks up under the drip edge and the nickel plated screws that mount the system to the home are below the drip edge as not to penetrate it.  The hoods have two ways for the water to enter the system, which causes a flushing effect keeping debris in the stream.  And since the internal brackets are elevated, once it enters the stream it is a clear shot out to the downspout.

GutterMaxx in Action

This system is also the only system designed under the premise that stuff will get in!  That’s why it works so well… it was designed to handle debris and not try to keep it all out!  Listen to LeafGuards ads and you will hear something like this, “Keeps ALL debris out that can clog your gutters”.  Really, ALL?  In other words our system can stop nature, think again.

If you look into the history of no-clog systems you soon discover that LeafGuard was the first attempt at extruding a gutter on-site with a hood on it.  It was designed and patented by K-guard approximately 16 years ago.  They franchised it and low and behold LeafGuard was born.  K-guard gave the franchise owners a 2-year no-clog warranty.  Later, the franchises extended that to lifetime to build a book of business.

After putting the system up for about 5 years they discovered that the system had some major flaws.

1. It was too small, it actually will fit inside a standard 41/2″ open tray gutter.  So installing it with a thick roofing material became difficult.
2. The design would not allow the use of a drip edge, and we have already seen what that causes.  When this was discovered they started to put caulking on the back of the gutter when they installed it.  (A short term solution at best)
3. It clogged!  what a no clog system that clogs, heaven forbid, remember the nature issue!  When they went out to unclog it because of the Lifetime warranty the discovered another problem.
4. It was very difficult to access because of the one piece design.  Once installed it was like a soda can!  And finally,
5. Damage issues, if the hood was damaged the owner was forced to buy a whole new run of gutter!  Yep, a one inch dent could cause the owner to purchase a new 40′, 50′ 60′ etc piece.

Imagine getting a ding on your car door, you take it in to get fixed and the repair place gives you a quote that makes you pass out.  Then you learn that to fix the door ding you have to purchase a new hood, the other doors, all the quarter panels, the trunk, everything because its all connected.  One piece is great on paper and in theory but in reality – not smart.

So after discovering and dealing with all these design set backs, they went back to K-guard and asked them to design a system to replace the first attempt.  They did!  the GutterMaxx system was born.  Now, it was not called that when it was presented to the LeafGuard franchise owners obviously because it was going to be their new product.  K-guard looked at the problems and solved them all because, like I stated earlier, they figured out that you cannot stop nature but you can control it to an extent.

K-Guard in Action - so this is identical to GutterMaxx?

No, the system is not perfect, but what it does along with its crown molding type majestic appearance backed up with Lifetime warranties from K-guard, it is without doubt the best system available to date.  Oh! why isn’t it Leafguard?  Well, when they found out that they would have to re-tool at a cost of $65,000 per truck per franchise owner plus re-do all their advertising from a one-piece system to a two-piece system, they turned it down.  K-guard decided to market it themselves through dealers across the country.  Smart choice.

When it comes to price, well guess what, with gutters and so called leaf-free hoods etc, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!

Wow!  There’s some interesting history there.  We can now begin to see how these product are all connected.

We’ve got downspouts that are permanently connected to underground pipes, so if GutterMaxx really is designed to allow some debris into the system, it may not work for us.  We need a system that will not allow leaves or large fragments into the downspouts.

Hello everyone.  I had Leaf Filter installed on my gutters.  My experience was completely horrible with Leaf Filter and I had to work with [...]]]> We are back with another Reader Report – this time it’s Joe talking about his experiences with the Leaf Filter gutter system.  Things didn’t go too well for Joe.  Read his report:

Hello everyone.  I had Leaf Filter installed on my gutters.  My experience was completely horrible with Leaf Filter and I had to work with my local BBB to get the Leaf Filter manufacturer to compensate me for having their product uninstalled from my gutters.

Leaf Filter in Action

They would not give me a full reimbursement for their product, but I was able to get about 1/3 of what I paid.  Every time I see the Leaf Filter being demoed at the home shows by a
certified installer, I approach them and tell them what a disappointing product it was for me.  I have a metal roof and I live in the northwest.  We get a lot of rain here and it is constantly moist.  The mesh filter kept getting clogged with mildew and moss.  I tried
to bleach the filter and scrub out the mesh – but I found out from other disappointed Leaf Filter owners that you have to also scrub out the underside of the mesh too.  Which means, you have to uninstall the mesh entirely to clean it because it gets clogged from the outside in and the inside out.

In addition, leaves would pile up on the gutter.  Because of all of this, water would run right across Leaf Filter and never get into my gutters to being with.  Not a good situation for me – especially because my house has a basement.

The Leaf Filter manufacturer told me that their product should NOT be installed on a house with a metal roof because the filter cannot keep up with the velocity of the water (I have a 6/12 roof pitch, which is not extreme).  The installer told me that they never knew about this.  The installer also told me that they have had so many complaints about Leaf Filter that they will no longer install it and have chosen not to be the regional Leaf Filter installer.

Maybe Leaf Filter is just not for folks that live in wet climates – so I guess your mileage may vary if you live in a drier climate, don’t have a metal roof, and have a roof pitch that is less aggressive than mine (6/12 is the standard where I live).

I would much, much rather clean my gutters twice a year rather than spend the extra money on gutter protection systems.  I will never buy another gutter protection system… and when I get too old to clean out my gutters, then I will pay someone else to do it for me.

Is this just one person’s bad experience?  If you use Leaf Filter, please let us know what you think.  Leave a comment.

I looked at Leaf Proof, Leaf Guard, Mastershield, Gutter Guard/Gutter Guardian, and Gutter Helmet, before choosing Gutter Helmet for my home last year.

This is what Gutter Helmet looks like installed

My husband and I chose Gutter [...]]]> Today we have another Reader Report from Kim, a Gutter Club reader, recommends Gutter Helmet, and here is her story:

I looked at Leaf Proof, Leaf Guard, Mastershield, Gutter Guard/Gutter Guardian, and Gutter Helmet, before choosing Gutter Helmet for my home last year.

This is what Gutter Helmet looks like installed

My husband and I chose Gutter Helmet because for one they have been around the longest and they continually improved their product since the 1980’s.  Our local branch for Gutter Helmet has been in our city for 19 years and are members of the BBB, National Home Builder’s Association, and National Rain Gutters Association.  They were complaint frree at the BBB and their Salesman showed proof of Licensure as well as current Worker’s Compensation and Liability certificates as well as a Bonding Certificate when he was here to give us an estimate.

The gentleman was very business-like, cordial and well-versed with the knowledge of his product he was estimating for us.  He showed me the design and even plugged up a sample model of their product so that we could view its performance.  I was exceptionally relieved that he did not pressure us into signing his proposal.  We were able to discuss it privately with no pressure and we called him with our acceptance.  Their price was average of all prices we were given of all the products we considered.

The office, salesperson and the installers were very professional and courteous.  Since having the helmets we have had to use a spray nozzle (that was given to us by the installers) a couple times of year to spray off the tree sap that adheres to the aluminum, but it is very simple its like spraying off your car.  We were told to do this annually or maybe more if the water isn’t pulling into the gutters and starts to overflow.  We were told this up front that this was a maintenance tip that we would have to administer or that their office would do it for us for $79.95 if we needed them to.

I liked the fact that they did not hide any information from us and the product works exactly how we were told it would.  I am mostly happy that I don’t have to worry about my husband on the ladder three and four times a year to clean the gutters.  It’s dangerous and we are too old to deal with broken bones or maybe even a death when we’d rather spend our time playing golf or my husband loves fishing and we really love having the grandkids.  This way we’re safe from injury with the gutter helmets.  If our considering leaf protection, I recommend Gutter Helmet.

Unfortunately Kim never mentions the total price for the project, but it was undoubtedly in the multiple thousands.  If you’ve got that kind of money to spare, this appears to be a ringing endorsement of Gutter Helmet.

I know that no professional gutter system salesman wants to hear this, but so far it’s the truth.  Since installing those white plastic filter covers, [...]]]> I installed those cheap, plastic gutter filters from Home Depot on our gutters a little more than one year ago.  They are doing a fantastic job at keeping out gutters clean!

I know that no professional gutter system salesman wants to hear this, but so far it’s the truth.  Since installing those white plastic filter covers, my gutter maintenance has dropped to near zero.  Here is a picture of the leaf guards I am using right now.

This is the Home Depot leaf guard I currently have installed

I live beneath 3 giant oak trees and one medium maple.  They DUMP leaves on my house at this time of year.  In the past, I would have already cleaned out my gutters a couple of times by hand while struggling with a tall ladder all around my house.  So far I haven’t cleaned anything this year.  Sure, the leaves are currently piled up on the filters, but seriously, it only takes a week or so of breeze and weather to virtually clear them of loose debris.

I predict that I’ll only have to casually climb up there at the end of December to remove any leaf pieces that have become stuck vertically in the mesh… which is very few.  I’ll report back then.

I’ve spent a lot of time lately attempting to find the best solution for keeping leaves and plant material out of our gutters. We currently have *no* gutters on the house due to the renovation. I don’t simply want to [...]]]> [originally posted a few years ago, but let's use it to kick off The Gutter Club]

I’ve spent a lot of time lately attempting to find the best solution for keeping leaves and plant material out of our gutters. We currently have *no* gutters on the house due to the renovation. I don’t simply want to install open gutters and leave it at that, because the house is so tall now that I have no way to reach the gutters for cleaning.

So I’ve been investigating solutions. There are TONS of them. Everyone seems to either love or hate any one particular solution. And most people agree that none of them work perfectly… and some don’t work at all. Here are a few that I have looked at.

Leaf Guard
Gutter Maxx
Leaf Filter
Gutter Filter
Gutter Stuff
Gutter Brush
Alcoa Leaf Relief
DIY options

We had Gutter Maxx come out and give us an estimate. GutterMaxx is like the next generation of LeafGuard. It looks like a quality product, but the price is ridiculous. For the ~100 feet of gutters (with all the pipes, downspouts, etc.) and the GutterMaxx topper, they wanted $4500. We talked them down to $3600, but that is still way more than our original open-gutter-only complete quote of $1200.

Today I had the local representative for Alcoa Leaf Relief come out to give an estimate. I wasn’t please by his unprofessional appearance and the fact that he seemed to work out of a station wagon packed with work stuff. I think that the Alcoa product is exactly what we need, but I’m wary about working with this particular guy.

No estimate back yet, but he indicated that Leaf Relief “isn’t the cheapest solution on the market.” Great. According to many other sources, this product *should* cost about $5-7 per linear foot, bringing us to $700 for installation on top of $1200 for the gutters themselves… for a total of $1900. Let’s see what he comes back with. I predict that it will be in the $3000 range. If so, I will laugh in his face.

Oh, and I did some research regarding the Alcoa 10-year No-Clog guarantee. It’s basically useless because it only kicks in if the INTERIOR of the gutters clog. If you’ve seen the product, it will be obvious that this isn’t its weak point. I have no doubt that the interiors will stay clear. The potential failure point of Leaf Relief is debris piling up on top of the perforation such that water runs off the top of the gutters. Sure they aren’t clogged, but they aren’t working either! There is NO guarantee that this won’t happen.

=== UPDATE ===

1.5 years after posting my thoughts on gutter leaf protection I went to Home Depot and paid $50 for a stack of Do-it-Yourself gutter guards. I installed them in about 1 hour and here it is, a month later, and they are working absolutely fine.

The bottom line is that the gutter protection “industry” is not worth your time and money. Just do it yourself.

=== UPDATE 2 ===

I’ve now had my Home Depot DIY plastic gutter filters installed for about 8 months and they are working flawlessly! Seriously. The leaves and debris just blow off my roof and filters. I’ve lifted the filters off of the gutters and looked inside. Totally clean with the smallest amount of grit that doesn’t even require a thought.

Why oh why didn’t I install these things from day one?